Interview with Nick Najjar of Elephant Capital Partners
Updated: Mar 15
Welcome back to the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast, hosted by Andrew Keel. On this episode of the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast, Andrew talks with Nick Najjar from Elephant Capital Partners. Nick Najjar is a promising mobile home park owner, entrepreneur, and real estate investor. He is passionate about the MHP space and has learned a lot in his first few years in the manufactured housing industry. Nick shares some of his lessons learned through direct mobile home park ownership along with his best tips for passive mobile home park investors. Nick also shares with us his opinions on the future of mobile home parks.
Besides being a mobile home park owner, Nick is an entrepreneur and passive investor. Nick is also a husband and father of four children. He’s a franchise owner of Real Producers Magazine and is the founder of Elephant Capital Partners. Elephant Capital Partners is growing at a rapid pace and they currently manage 5 mobile home parks with over 270 lots located throughout Missouri and Illinois.
Andrew Keel is the owner of Keel Team, LLC, a Top 100 Owner of Manufactured Housing Communities with over 2,000 lots under management. His team currently manages over 30 manufactured housing communities across more than ten states. His expertise is in turning around under-managed manufactured housing communities by utilizing proven systems to maximize the occupancy while reducing operating costs. He specializes in bringing in homes to fill vacant lots, implementing utility bill back programs, and improving overall management and operating efficiencies, all of which significantly boost the asset value and net operating income of the communities.
Andrew has been featured on some of the Top Podcasts in the manufactured housing space, click here to listen to his most recent interviews: https://www.keelteam.com/podcast-links. In order to successfully implement his management strategy Andrew's team usually moves on location during the first several months of ownership. Find out more about Andrew's story at AndrewKeel.com.
Would you like to see mobile home park projects in progress? If so, follow us on Instagram: @passivemhpinvesting for photos and awesome videos from our recent mobile home park acquisitions.
00:21 - Welcome to the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast
01:20 - Nick’s background
03:56 - Nick’s first mobile home park and resources for new investors
06:49 - The toughest hurdle in mobile home park ownership
12:00 - Where the MHP business and industry will be in the future
16:05 - What LP's need to look out for when they’re investing into MHP's with different operators or investment funds
19:50 - Nick’s perfect mobile home park
20:20 - Mistakes we can learn from
23:50 - Legacy
25:58 - Nick’s value add projects
30:29 - What makes Elephant Capital Partners different from everyone else
31:17 - Getting a hold of Nick
31:37 - Nick’s last piece of advice
32:29 - Conclusion
👇 SUBSCRIBE TO PASSIVE MOBILE HOME PARK INVESTING PODCAST YOUTUBE CHANNEL 👇 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy9uI3KGQmFgABsr9lUtRTQ
Links & Mentions from This Episode:
Elephant Capital Partners: https://elephantcp.com/
Building an Elite Organization, by Don Wenner: https://www.amazon.com/Building-Elite-Organization-High-Growth-High-Profit/dp/1544517491
Clockwork: Design Your Business to Run Itself, by Mike Michalowicz: https://www.amazon.com/Clockwork-Design-Your-Business-Itself-ebook/dp/B078GDX7BP
Keel Team's official website: https://www.keelteam.com/
Andrew Keel's official website: https://www.andrewkeel.com/
Andrew Keel LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewkeel
Andrew Keel Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/PassiveMHPin...
Andrew Keel Instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/passivemhpi...
Andrew: Welcome to the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing podcast. This is your host, Andrew Keel. Today, we have an amazing guest in Mr. Nick Najjar of ACS Communities.
Before we dive in, I want to ask you a real quick favor. Would you mind please taking an extra 30 seconds and heading over to iTunes to rate this podcast with five stars? This helps us get more listeners and it means the absolute world to me. Thanks for making my day with that review of the show. All right, let's dive in.
Nick is a husband, father of four children, entrepreneur, and investor. He's a Real Producers Magazine franchise owner and is the founder of ACS Communities. ACS Communities is growing fast and they currently manage 5 parks with over 270 lots located in Missouri, Illinois. Nick, welcome to the show.
Nick: Thanks for having me.
Andrew: I'm so excited to have you on. I know we've been talking back and forth probably for five years now. It's just pretty awesome to see your growth. Would love for you to share your story with all of our listeners and talk about how you got into manufactured housing.
Nick: We were actually chatting a little bit offline right before we started. I have been interested in mobile home parks for probably almost 15 years now. One of my good friends got in the business a very long time ago back when it wasn't a sexy thing, and then he told me, I guess one of your guests right before me, Justin Donald has been in the space and he and I worked together at Cutco Cutlery for quite a long time and he got into space.
I went to the Frank & Dave Boot Camp probably about six or seven years ago now and I was very interested. Right after I went, the summer later, I actually started the fifth Real Producers Magazine in all the US and kept growing that. I kind of put a pause trying to find a park and then I found the park. I think it was 2018. I was looking for about 6–7 months. Found my first park, it was a Sunstone listing. A pretty rough deal, 50% occupied Southside of Chicago, real close to your park manager in Gary, Indiana. That was kind of how I first got in it.
The year of COVID, we bought a park in February, the worst time ever to buy a mobile home park, right before the worldwide shutdown. Then I bought a park later that June, then later January, and then just closed on one I think November of 2021. Kind of slow to get in it, but now we're full speed ahead.
Andrew: Full speed ahead. Is this your full-time gig now or are you still working with some of the other businesses you have?
Nick: That's a great question. I got into this business for passive income and as we were also talking a little bit before, when you're operating, you can probably operate two or three, depending on how many park-owned homes you have and depending on how heavy of a project. As most people would agree, it's not really passive. My goal is to be the investor-founder of my two companies that are growing very fast. Obviously just trying to be a great dad and husband is the top priority. Fortunately, I have really great staff that run the day-to-day of the company so I'm just kind of high-level focused on acquisitions, growth, and strategy, that type of thing.
Andrew: That's awesome. That is fantastic. What year was that when you bought your first park? Was that 2019?
Nick: It was December 2018 and then ironically, I'm like okay, now I have to go to the boot camp because I own a park now. It’s January of 2019 in Orlando. You may have gone to bowl. You may have been the first one and then we're at that second one. I was like oh hey, what's up? Then you have John with you, you get up, and you're talking about your success in the mobile home park because Frank's talking about that. You talked about your park in Edwardsville which is 30 minutes from my house and it's really cool. That's where we've kind of really kept in touch ever since.
This podcast has been incredible. There are three or four podcasts that I listened to in the mobile home park space and this is one that's always on the list. I appreciate everything you do for the community. You're just a very generous, kind, giving person. It's just really cool to see you grow your empire.
Andrew: I'm super appreciative. I just love it. There's so much out there of just free education that you can get with Ferd's new podcast, the MHP Lawyer podcast was a ton on there, the Facebook groups, LinkedIn groups, it's awesome. For people that want to get in and break-in, because your first part is the hardest one to get. Same thing with me. It took me a year-and-a-half to buy my first one and then once the funnel was built, it was a lot more often.
Nick: I'll throw this out there really quick. Just thinking about it, because probably you are asked a lot. You tell me about it to get excited and I always sound like, if you've spent more than 3–5 hours just thinking about investing in mobile home parks, you really got to go to the Mobile Home University, Frank Rolfe boot camp, because as a passive investor, which I know is the audience, you're just going to be a much more confident investor when you have gone through that three-day training.
I've had friends that have gone last year. One of them's like I'm going to buy a park. I'm going to start with a million-dollar park and then we're going to scale this. He went to the boot camp and he's like yeah, I don't want to buy a park. I just want to be a passive investor. Other guys are like yeah, I want to get into it. Especially for this audience, even if you're not going to operate, I still recommend it, because he is the best in the business and it's been pretty cool to be a part of that.
Andrew: Definitely, yeah. From an education standpoint, I've gone to four of them and I try to go every time it comes to Orlando, the MHU boot camp, just a wealth of information. The networking is great. There are a lot of active operators in the room. I love those events. Tell us, Nick, what has been the toughest hurdle for you in the mobile home park ownership business?
Nick: Probably just scaling. It's a full-time operation and you can have one or two and not have systems and staff. As you rack up the park-owned home count, as you buy some pretty heavy value add types of projects, just really creating the systems and focusing on hiring the right people just like any business, but just that whole thing is a tough business to operate. There's no doubt about it.
It's easy because you get the recurring revenue with the lot rent, but if say there's an 80-site park and 78 tenant-own homes, that's one thing, but most of the deals that are coming about these days aren't that. Just kind of scaling and systems would be the biggest challenge.
Andrew: Oh, yeah. I definitely agree. That piggybacks on the next question of how you manage your parks. I know you have five now. You're kind of at that cusp where you're getting big enough to start really bringing on more than just on-site managers in terms of staff. Tell us about that. Have you ever used third-party management or do you manage fully in-house?
Nick: Never really even considered third-party management. There was a larger community and I kind of thought about it because it was a hundred plus park-owned homes. We didn't end up moving forward on that one. One of my best friends actually for 20 years, Jason, I texted him back in November of last year because I knew he was looking for a job, kind of looking to do a career change. I'm like hey, I'm busting the seams working way more than I want. Do you want to come help me build this thing? He's all in. That's been cool to have him as the key man, Vice President, Operator, whatever you want to give him the official title there. He kind of runs now the weekly manager calls.
Our largest community is 81 sites, but there are only 30 occupied so it's a big project. Our large community has about 65 sites, so we have an on-site manager at each community and they are just eyes and ears on the ground. Then we have an operations manager, a bookkeeper, and then now Jason. We're pretty well-staffed.
Even with a good staff, when you're working with these on-site managers who are great, it's just different than having one manager that you're paying them $40,000 or $50,000 a year that's managing three properties or something like that. It's a little more challenging with the on-site, but this is kind of the way to make it work with these smaller communities.
Andrew: Definitely. Nick, how do you find your deals? I know we spoke offline, you guys have a pretty big assignment fee-driven business in addition to this. What's the secret sauce?
Nick: Secret sauce is like any sales business. A lot of phone calls. We use an autodialer. We have two people calling. It's kind of hard to sit on the phone for four or five hours a day, so they're probably averaging 2-3 hours a day, just teeing up owners that want to potentially sell their park. Then most everything we do is off-market. We still stay in touch with our key relationships and things like that. It's just a lot of phone calls, a lot of database research. That off-market thing is really where we really focus.
Andrew: Is that just in Missouri and Illinois where you currently own? Where do you guys market to?
Nick: Since Jason came on board, we've really started scaling, but we're basically focused on Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa right now. We're just one state at a time. Our goal is to do this in probably 30 or 40 states on a pretty high level, because the more I've been doing it, this business is like most, it’s a supply-and-demand type of thing. The supply is incredibly limited and the demand, especially at least what I've seen since COVID, is incredibly high. As inflation rises, as people are trying to figure out what to do with their cash, this is a great opportunity for a lot of individuals and it always has been, but I think the light is now shining on this asset class.
Andrew: I agree and maybe you could shed some more light on that. What do you think the direction of mobile home parks is as we move forward with the uncertainties in the marketplace. Do you think it will remain resilient as it has in previous recessions? Do you think there could be any hurdles as the lower quartile of people may get impacted harder than the middle class or upper middle class?
Nick: Yeah, it's a loaded question. I think that the industry has kind of proven to be recession-resistant. In a way our business kind of thrives in a recession. We're not really there yet, but I think everybody would say it's coming, it's just a matter of time. I think the only thing we might see is that as interest rates rise, we're seeing a lot of people last year that paid some prices that if interest rates rise, they might not be able to hit that debt service coverage ratio. I think that would be a bad thing, obviously, for those operators, but a win for guys like you and me that would then be able to buy those parks at a little more reasonable price than maybe that person paid for last year.
I think at the end of the day, this is, if not the best, one of the best (I think) self-storage kind of rivals, that now you've been getting out a little bit. So I've been intrigued by that. In terms of the incredibly low cost of living and lot rents which will always be able to be raised and the opportunity to get really great debt on these assets.
I talk a lot about Bitcoin; I love Bitcoin. It's very simple. There's 21 million Bitcoin. There are only 44,000 parks and the Bitcoin doesn't go away, except for people that lose their keys and whatnot. The parks are going away, unfortunately. These very few cities want them and a lot of bad operators just kind of run them to the ground. They don’t know how to manage a business and they've inherited the park from their dad, or their cousin, or their aunts, or whatever. These smaller ones are going away. There's still a ton of opportunities out there that limited supply and high demand are going to be a really great business for a very long time.
Andrew: I think one of the things we were talking about this morning on a park we have under contract is just the amount of forced appreciation you can bring to these things on heavy value add projects. We have a park, it's in Arizona, a great market under contract right now, 50 units occupied out of 100 units. The current owner in his late 70s, just is a typical mom and pop, literally doesn't even have a rent-roll. He memorized all the tenants' names and goes to their units to pick up rent, usually with cash. Goes to their doors to get cash on the fifth of the month, and that's how we get paid.
We're like, hey, man, we're trying to get financing on this, we need a rent-roll. He's like alright, well, you got a pen? I'll just start shooting it off to you. Seriously swear to you. He said do you have a pen? He was going to tell us all the tenant's names, the lot number, and how much they pay every month.
I think that aspect of mobile home parks makes it a great opportunity and it will. While a lot of these baby boomers over the next 10 years are retiring and giving these assets like you said, either to their children, or to family members, or they're selling them right, or letting them go. I think it's a great opportunity for a new generation to come in and maximize these things. That's what operators like you and I are doing, adding value to them.
Nick: A couple of other thoughts on that just because there's this group of passive investors. The benefits of just real estate in general, but our business doing cost segregation and getting the bonus depreciation, one of my friends that's been in the business for a long time. I think he has 11 or 12 communities now and he's bought and sold quite a bit over the years. He's like, Nick, if I actually understood the asset appreciation, I probably would have bought a lot more. The ability to appreciate the asset, get depreciation, raise rents, boost your net operating income, refinance the property, take that money out, and repurpose that however you want, it's just a really really beautiful business.
Andrew: Very tax-efficient, for sure. Tell us this, Nick. This is one of the most important questions I asked everybody that comes on the show. What are the most important things that passive investors—we're talking LPs here—what do they need to look out for when they're investing into mobile home parks with different operators or funds?
Nick: That's a great question. I listen to your podcast a lot, and it comes up a lot. Obviously, it's all about the operator. Is that operator full-time? If they're not, somebody like me, we have three soon-to-be four full-time employees that are running the day to day of business. Just the track record, obviously.
I think there are opportunities too for your passive investor to help out the newer guy. Maybe they're looking for their first park. As long as the terms are favorable, it still can be a great opportunity and a great way for somebody to get their feet wet as a passive investor and also to help the new guys start this kind of business.
The track record, the pro formas—you look at a lot of broker pro formas—are very inflated and even some of these individuals—I've been looking at more passive opportunities so I'm trying to get on what I would consider a better operator's list for passive investments—I still see some of these pro formas and I'm like, yeah, I don't think you're going to be able to bring in 15 homes next year or raise rents this much.
Just really paying attention, this is where the Bootcamp will come in handy, or just finding a mentor that knows the business before you make that investment to just run it by them to say hey, do these numbers make sense? Is this cash on cash return really going to be 16% as a passive investor, or is it going to look more like 8%?
There are some horror stories. I'm in Justin Donald's investor group and there's a fund out there that a lot of guys invested in three years ago and they haven't got anything for three years. You have to do your own due diligence. You can't rely on their due diligence. If you're going to be a passive investor, go drive the property, drive the asset, get your eyes on that area, really look at the real estate and ask yourself the right questions like would you own this? Obviously, you might not want to operate it, but is it attractive? Is it sexy? Or is it not sexy today, what does it look like a year or two from now when somebody can turn that thing around?
Andrew: You made some really good points there. I think of the deals that I started out with—and we still do several of them—and the deals that you're doing, Nick, that are more value add, forced appreciation, bringing in homes to fill vacant lots, improving management. I think on those types of deals, depending on good due diligence, I actually feel more comfortable with the more value that there is to be added because there's such a cushion.
With a pro forma, I tell this to our investors too, how wrong is this going to be? That's what you need to look at. Every single pro forma we've ever prepared has gone off in one way or the other and it's really, do you trust the operator? Do they have experience doing what they're saying they're going to do? But yeah, I agree. Being able to add value to communities through bringing in homes and so forth, I just love it. It adds so much value and not a lot of people can do it like you and I can so that's huge.
Let's ask this. What does the perfect mobile home park look like in your eyes and why?
Nick: Completely occupied with tenant-owned homes, city water, city sewer, low lot rents that can be raised over time and as big as possible. Simple.
Andrew: Direct Bill, ideally, right?
Nick: Direct Bill water sewer is huge. We have Direct Bill water, it's not Direct Bill sewer. We have another one under contract that's Direct Bill water. It's small. It’s 22 sites. I'm like, Direct Bill water, that's great. Let's do it.
Andrew: It’s so great. That's huge and to buy that park you just described at a 10 cap, right?
Nick: Yeah, exactly.
Andrew: That would be great. Nick, what are some mistakes that you guys have made that maybe we could learn from?
Nick: So many, but you don't know what you don't know. That's one of the things I love about listening to podcasts, learning to try and mitigate, and learning from other people's mistakes. HUD. I think I actually talked about some [...]. I can't remember which mistakes. I made a list of like five so I'll try and think of new ones, but I didn't really realize what HUD was.
We go, we literally ordered new homes, we ordered three new homes like oh, we'll put it on these two vacant lots, we'll put one lot here and then the installer comes out and he's like oh, Nick, that's not going to pass a HUD inspection. I'm like, what are you talking about? I learned this whole thing about HUD. I just missed that in boot camp somehow. That was a big one. It depends on the state, obviously, the six-inch frost-free foundation and the concrete slabs, and if you're going to do piers, all that. That whole thing was quite the learning experience.
Andrew: You're not the only one. There was a huge group, actually, recently, that just bought a ton of parks, and on their pro forma they didn't account for concrete work. That is so, so important when you're planning to bring into HUD states. Like you said, when we bought that park—we bought several in La Salle County, just west of Chicago—we had to go 48 inches deep on the concrete. It had to have (I think it was) 24 piers, 24 inches in diameter per home. That was like $5000 per lot in concrete work. You definitely got to account for all those costs.
Nick: Yeah, and it depends on the market. Our concrete work (I think) was like $10,000 or $11,000 per lot in the Chicago Metro. Lot rents are incredibly high. I think we're getting $600 a month right now, but everything else is pretty expensive.
Even a little tip—this was on a pro forma I looked at—when you get these older homes, the 60s–70s, you see a lot of parks that have them, I'll just start budgeting $15,000–$20,000 per home because we can completely remodel it, probably come in less than $15,000–$20,000 or we can tear it out, put in a new home, prep the new pad, and is probably going to come out there. It kind of worked for me. I'd love your opinion. Do you think that's a good way to kind of look at those old lots and vacant lots?
Andrew: The old homes?
Andrew: I try to get pretty specific with it where I'm going to charge $3000 to tear this home out of here. Then I'm going to put in new concrete if I'm going to bring in new homes. We go with $18,000 to bring in a used home and then for the new homes, we've been using Legacy a lot. Have you gotten homes from them?
Nick: I've heard of them. I looked into it. We use 21st with the new homes. We actually haven't ordered and I need to order some. We just put everything on hold and COVID and now it's like alright, I probably need to do this, but they're like oh, we'll get it to you Fall of 2023. It's just crazy. It's crazy times right now. Legacy, if you want to explain?
Andrew: Legacy, they have a financing arm so you can come in and I think put down like 5% or 10% of the cost of the new home plus transport and they'll finance the transport and the new home. For being able to fill a lot for maybe $15,000, that's a new home. It's pretty attractive.
It has to be the right market, though, so that you can get high enough lot rents like that one you just mentioned where you got $600 a month lot rents. I mean, that's awesome. That would be a park where I would look at more new homes, but then we have other parks that have a lot of rents around $225 a month and they're just more rural areas. I would look at used homes in that type of market for sure.
Nick: That was a big lesson learned for me, too. We moved into some homes trying to sell them, but it's really a renters market. It all worked out because we're getting I think $1100 a month and a lot in home rent because it's in Chicago, but that's a big lesson learned as well. Know the market is a huge one.
Andrew: For sure. Tell me about some of your value add projects. I know you've taken on some heavier lifts. What's been some of the hardest parts of value add? Is it infill? I know a lot of people stress that. Is it rehabs?
Nick: All of it is hard to say, but I think the one actually, props to Cory Woodruff. It's actually funny. I could write a book on the deals that Andrew passed on. Actually two of the communities in Granite City, Illinois, you looked at. I think I've got him at a much better price than you pass on because it was like you would look at it and then like six months later, we came in so this owner kind of got beat up a little bit in that process.
Anyway, Cory, I think you were the one that introduced me and I appreciate that a ton. I'd ask if you want to sell your community in the St. Louis Metro Area in the hillside and you're like no, but check out this park. It's rough, 81 sites, 30 occupied homes, 14 abandoned parks on homes, like straight-up abandoned, complete owner neglect for a decade. That is a rough project in the heart.
The biggest hurdle, I think for almost everybody in the industry right now, is just contractors. We'll go through three contractors just to finish a home because they'll start, they'll do good work for like two weeks, and then they'll disappear. It's just like this vicious cycle of trying to stay within budget on these homes. Fortunately, we've been able to do that, but that's a big one. I don't know if that answers your question.
Andrew: With the contractors, I'm stressing to all of our project managers every day. Don't get ahead on pay and behind on work because as soon as you do that, the chuck-in-a-truck-handyman–type, they just take a couple of weeks off when they get ahead. It is tough, and I think that one of the big differences between mobile home parks and other asset classes, is that we're not able to really get a general contractor to come in and rehab these homes no matter if we have 20 or 30 that need to be rehabbed.
A general contractor has bigger jobs with just better margins than mobile home rehabs. We're forced to use more handyman types. Just trying to get a handyman that has insurance is a challenge in and of itself. I agree. It's difficult, but it's not impossible. The more experience you have, the better you get, I think.
Nick: I think this business takes that grit. You just gotta keep following up and following them through. You have to have a kind of thick skin right to deal with the issues that are issues.
Andrew: Yeah, it's not a complex business. There's only a certain number of levers, but you definitely need that grit, that hustle, to really see things through the finish line because, for example, we have one transporter that is the most like laid back guy, he's older, but if we don't follow-up with him three or four times that home is not going to get delivered. We have to get him off the couch to get him working, and we do.
Nick: Just curious, a few quick questions for you. You mentioned levers, what are your key levers that you look at on a weekly, daily, monthly? What are your KPIs?
Andrew: Great question. For us, our KPIs have grown. We have a whole list of them. Definitely occupancy is our queen bee role, not sure if you know have or have looked at the book Clockwork.
Nick: I highly recommend that book, a great book.
Andrew: We have occupancy, hats, stickers, and everything all over the office. We're always talking about occupancy. We're looking at that compared to what a pro forma occupancy was. We look at collections, obviously, which collections usually average out to about 95%–96%. If we got heads and beds, we know we're going to collect 95% of the rent. Collections are on there. We look at NOI versus pro forma NOI, what we thought it was going to be versus actual. Then expense ratio. What our expenses are is super important for us.
One hidden one that I think is super important is the unexpected CapEx. Someone that is a tenant-home owned when you bought the park, they trashed the place, and have been living in there for a long time. You don't really budget, we have to rehab that home and maybe tear the home down when they move out.
We always keep track of that and look at the turnover rate because that's something that we look at honestly when we go sell a park. The parks that we sell, if they have high turnover, that is a key indicator that hey, we need to exit this park and find other parks that have lower turnover. Those are few.
Nick: I love it.
Andrew: Let me ask you this, Nick. What is the value proposition at ACS Communities? What would you say make you guys different for investors out there looking to invest in you guys?
Nick: We just run it like a business. You mentioned Clockwork. Building an Elite Organization is a great book, Don Wenner, DLP Lending. Really cool company, a very cool success story, and I just like that model. We just have some really great systems that we've been working on and pay attention to all the levers on a very consistent basis. I just think that we have the experience to go out and really tackle any project and get our investors a great return.
Andrew: Love it. Nick, how can our listeners get a hold of you if they like to do so?
Nick: Probably our sales website at elephantcp.com, so Elephant Capital Partners.
Andrew: Awesome. Tell us one last tip for passive investors interested in investing in mobile home parks. What's one last tip before we let you go?
Nick: I kind of already covered it. Just do your due diligence. Don't rely on a pro forma or anything that the investor tells you. Do your background on the person, run a background check, ask for a list of their investors to get their opinion on how the returns have been. Just do your due diligence. Get an attorney if it's a PPM or a fund, review all the details, know what you're getting into. Like any investment or alternative investment, you really just want to do your property diligence.
Andrew: Definitely. Thank you so much for coming onto the show, Nick. Really appreciate it.
Nick: Thanks for having me, man. Thanks for everything that you do.
Andrew: Awesome. That's it for today, folks. Thank you all so much for tuning in.