Exploring the Park Owned Home Model with MHP Operator Todd Sulzinger
Welcome back to the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast, hosted by Andrew Keel. In this episode of the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast, Andrew talks with new mobile home park owner and operator: Todd Sulzinger. Todd answers several questions including: the most important things passive investors need to look out for when investing in mobile home parks, how he runs his trailer parks and the park owned home model when it comes to the mobile homes in his communities, he also discusses his exit strategy and endgame goals. Andrew and Todd do a deep dive into Todd's management strategies from his choice of working in majority park owned home communities to the perks of having an on-site maintenance team. Andrew also asks Todd about his numbers in terms of turnover and re-leasing and about how those numbers changed because of COVID-19.
Andrew Keel's guest, Todd Sulzinger is the president at Blue Elm Investments. Blue Elm works to develop safe, secure, and recession-proof investments allowing them to build long-term sustainable cash flow through the acquisition of mobile home parks across the United States. Todd also acts as a consultant with CCI Investments, helping buyers acquire and improve mobile home parks.
Andrew Keel is the owner of Keel Team, LLC, a Top 100 Owner of Manufactured Housing Communities with over 1,400 lots under management. His team currently manages over 20 manufactured housing communities across ten states - AR, GA, IA, IL, IN, MN, NE, OH, PA and TN. His expertise is in turning around under-managed manufactured housing communities by utilizing proven systems to maximize the occupancy while reducing operating costs. He specializes in bringing in homes to fill vacant lots, implementing utility bill back programs, and improving overall management and operating efficiencies, all of which significantly boost the asset value and net operating income of the communities.
Andrew has been featured on some of the Top Podcasts in the manufactured housing space, click here to listen to his most recent interviews: https://www.keelteam.com/podcast-links. In order to successfully implement his management strategy Andrew's team usually moves on location during the first several months of ownership. Find out more about Andrew's story at AndrewKeel.com.
Would you like to see mobile home park projects in progress? If so, follow us on Instagram: @passivemhpinvesting for photos and awesome videos from our recent mobile home park acquisitions.
00:18 - Welcome to the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast
01:09 - Todd's Background
02:37 - The hardest part about the business
03:18 - On-site visits
04:37 - What investors need to look out for when investing
06:41 - Todd's value-add secrets for his mobile home parks
09:45 - Todd's preference for majority park owned home communities
15:20 - Performance during COVID-19
18:42 - Todd's perfect mobile home park
21:43 - Tenant turnover and re-leasing numbers
22:40 - Todd's deals: personal investment, recourse, and rate of returns
26:50 - Exit strategy and end game goals
28:27 - CCI and third party management of communities
31:23 -Todd's current projects and deals he is working on
32:40 - How to get a hold of Todd
33:45 - Conclusion
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Links & Mentions from This Episode:
Todd's email: firstname.lastname@example.org
Blue Elm Investments website: www.blueelminvestments.com
Reach out to Todd to get a free copy of the book he co-authored called, "The Success Habits of Super Achievers."
Keel Team's official website: https://www.keelteam.com/
Andrew Keel's official website: https://www.andrewkeel.com/
Andrew Keel LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewkeel
Andrew Keel Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/PassiveMHPin...
Andrew Keel Instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/passivemhpi...
Andrew: Welcome to the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast. This is your host, Andrew Keel, and today we have an amazing guest in Mr. Todd Sulzinger.
Todd is the president at Blue Elm Investments. Blue Elm works to develop safe, secure, and recession-proof investments allowing them to build long-term sustainable cash flow through the acquisition of mobile home parks across the US. Todd also acts as a consultant with CCI Investments, helping buyers acquire and improve mobile home parks.
Todd, welcome to the show.
Todd: Oh, thank you very much for having me, Andrew. I’m really looking forward to our talk.
Andrew: Awesome. Can you please start out by telling our listeners a little about your background and how you got into manufactured housing?
Todd: Absolutely. I spent most of my career working in Silicon Valley, in finance roles for a variety of different startups, medical device companies, software, hardware companies, and started investing in real estate—actually, in the Dallas-Fort Worth market. I'm based in Northern California and started buying houses in that area with the idea of building up, buying multiple houses, creating passive cash flow.
After doing that for a few years, I realized it was going to take a long time and a lot of homes actually to get towards that goal of replacing my W-2 income with income from real estate and at that same time, I started going to some of the real estate guys’ syndication events and just found out about this idea of group investments, of pulling people's resources together to go out and buy bigger properties than they would otherwise, and decided I want to start a business around real estate syndications. Then over a couple of years, looking at a lot of different asset classes, looking at apartments and self-storage and groups of single-family homes, I ended up zeroing in on mobile home parks.
Andrew: That's fantastic. How long have you actively owned mobile home parks?
Todd: I bought my first parks just a little over a year ago with a couple of parks that I acquired in Georgia.
Andrew: Fantastic, that's awesome. What is the hardest part about this business in your eyes?
Todd: The hardest part is management. Running a mobile home park is different than just managing a single-family home or group of single-family homes or an apartment. There's just a lot of moving pieces, the tenant base can be a little bit different, having on-site managers or a maintenance person on staff and managing those remotely, I think is a challenge.
Andrew: I totally agree with you. We have an episode all about that. I applaud you for managing your parks fully remotely as we do. How often do you visit your parks or how often do you think is necessary?
Todd: I wish I could visit more often than I do. I got a base in California and the parks I have are in Georgia and now, Tennessee, and I haven't been out there since the pandemic so I need to get out there. I haven't made the effort to fly out there. I'd consider driving out and making a several-week trip and I may have been doing that later this year or early next year, but I haven't been able to get out there as often as I'd wanted to after I acquired these parks, but we've replaced that with doing a lot of video calls.
I actually had one yesterday with our on-site manager and we just went through the entire park and it probably took us a couple of hours just to have her on FaceTime, going into a lot of the homes, scanning around the park. That's been the only thing we can do, is to replace it with some good video calls.
Andrew: A lot of our audiences are passive investors that have invested in multi-family, self-storage, and other asset classes. What would you say are the most important things that passive investors need to look out for when investing in this asset class of mobile home parks? What are those big-ticket things that they need to look out for?
Todd: In any kind of syndication, starting to understand the business itself. For a lot of people, it's the first step. Do I want to invest in real estate? Yes, I do, and then it's what kind of asset classes make sense to them in terms of how they want to diversify?
After that, it's looking at the operator’s experience. While I'm relatively new to the mobile home park business, I had hired CCI—the company I'm actually working for now as a consultant—I had hired them to help me with the due diligence, and do an on-site visit, and help with negotiations, and creating a turnaround plan. Having somebody who's experienced in the business is important.
Then I would just say, if somebody had experience in apartment investing, for example, just getting used to some of the terminology about lot rents, and home rents, and how utilities work, and some of the other questions that might not come up in an apartment, maybe it's related to the sewer system or the water system, and whether it's on city utilities or private utilities. Those are some of the things I would ask about—just a few things about mobile home parks, how they're different from an apartment complex, or a single-family home.
Andrew: To piggyback on that, what are some of the value-add components that you've implemented in your mobile home parks? Maybe you could go into the micro details on those because the value-add components in mobile home parks are a lot different—I wouldn't say completely different—but somewhat different with more involvement with infill and things like that compared to other asset classes like self-storage or apartments where you're more so of turning a unit. Can you elaborate on some of the value-add that you've implemented and what was easier or harder, and how those went, and what your budgets were?
Todd: Sure. When we bought the parks in Georgia, the owner had owned them for about 17,18 years and had not done a lot. The park hadn't increased rents in about 15 years and it was only accepting cash from his tenants, so probably wasn't reporting at all, and would let people pay late if they wanted to because again, he was not reporting all this income so it wasn't that big a deal to him. But that also caused the park to just start to decline a little bit in terms of the way it looked and the tenant base.
One of the first things that we did is we put back in a garbage can. That might not seem like a big deal, but at some point in time, the owner decided there are too many other people in the neighborhood that are just dumping stuff there so I'm just going to take it out. That actually caused the residents to have to take their garbage manually to the dump, and they were two parks about a mile from each other. In this one park, there are about 50 spaces and they're going to take their own garbage to the dump, so we brought in a garbage dump or a big trash can where they can put their garbage.
A lot of the mailboxes, about half of the mailboxes—it was one of those big metal clusters with doors on them—and about half of the doors were broken, so half of the residents could pick up their mail in the park, the other half had to go to the Post Office to pick it up, so we installed a new bank of mailboxes just so they can—what seems like a natural thing—they should be able to have mail delivered close to where they live.
Those were a couple of things that we tried to implement right away, just to make life a little bit nicer for the people living in the park. We did have a few vacant lots and we ended up buying some used refurbished homes.
There was a guy that we found. Some people probably aren't aware that in the same way that there are stick-built house flippers, there are also mobile home flippers where somebody might buy a home for maybe as low as free to get it off somebody’s lot or maybe pay a few thousand dollars for it. They'll rehab it and then sell to somebody like me. We bought a couple of 16x83 bedroom, 2-bath homes that were built in the late 90s, and just bought them fully refurbished for about $20,000 all in and slotted those into a couple of spaces in the park and rented those out. I got another example of bringing in a little bit newer homes that are already remodeled and ready to go and place some there for our residents.
Andrew: Wonderful. You mentioned something that I think we should touch on because from our previous conversation— tell me if I'm wrong—but you prefer the park owned home model with rentals. Isn't that right?
Todd: That's right, I do. Like the park in Georgia, it's about 80% park-owned, 20% tenant-owned homes. I like that model mostly because of the income. In the markets wherein lot rents will be between $150 to $200, whereas you could rent a home in that market for between $450 and $600, so that spread of $300 to $400 between the lot rent and the home rent more than covers the cost of maintenance and vacancy. The downside to that is there is more maintenance. We have an on-site maintenance guy who's pretty active in the park on a regular basis—taking care of tenant issues.
Andrew: Is he like a full-time employee then that you have on staff? How do you treat those?
Todd: We give him free rent for the home that he lives in and then above a certain amount of time, we pay him an hourly rate. He does a combination of light maintenance inside the homes if there's any kind of issues for tenants—need light bulbs changed or a sewer might be clogged—and then he’ll also do some light rehab if a unit turns and perhaps new walls may be put in, maybe a new floorboard needs to be put in. He can take care of those kinds of things as well.
Andrew: I was talking to a big property manager, a residential property manager, and he was telling me that they started a maintenance side of their business and he was saying that they've just had more complaints and they've gotten sued a couple of times on the maintenance side of things because there's a lot of liability there.
Have you guys had any issues like that? Does he have worker’s compensation and that kind of stuff, or is he more of an independent contractor?
Todd: Yeah, he's an independent contractor for us. Actually, we've had the opposite, that the response has been really good because the previous owner was not investing a lot in the park, and he wasn't charging people because he hadn’t increased the rent for a long time. He was charging rent below market. They just accepted that nobody would come and fix their house. We took over and they're like, oh my gosh, these guys are actually coming in here and fixing these things—
Andrew: Doing something, right?
Todd: —we put in a maintenance request, so there's been a positive impression of us since we've taken over.
Andrew: That's fantastic, and especially you being in California and these parks being all the way on the other side of the country, your on-site manager must be just a rock star.
Todd: We've had good luck having great people on-site and my experience in the business and what I learned before, and in terms of some of the difficulty and challenges of running mobile home parks really comes down to finding a good manager that just gets it, understands, works hard, lets you know what's going on in the park, and that can make or break the operation for sure.
Andrew: How much do you pay an on-site manager? I'm sure there's a little bit more involved with the park-owned community versus a tenant-owned community, so you probably have to pay a little bit more than the standard $10 a lot, right?
Todd: Right. Between the two parks, there are 71 spaces and we pay $1500 a month, so a little more than $20 a space. Part of that is because there are two parks about a mile apart. They'd have to do a little driving back and forth, and because there's more activity from a maintenance standpoint from the homes that they are more active in what's going on.
Andrew: Are those employees, or are those independent contractors as well for you guys?
Todd: They are independent contractors as well.
Andrew: Okay. Got you.
Todd: Actually, the maintenance person lives in the park. We had two different on-site managers but they actually live about 10 or 15 minutes away from the park. One of them used to live in the park and then she moved out of the park during the time we were going through the acquisition. She came to us and said, I'm moving away to another house about 10-15 minutes away, but I'd still like to manage the park. She's considered our on-site manager but she doesn't actually live on-site, but close enough that she's there to go to the park on a regular basis, show tenants homes, collect rent, whatever else needs to be done at the parks.
Andrew: That's great. What have you found to be your expense ratio, since you have majority park owned homes? In some of the industries that have a tenant-owned home, expense ratios are 30% to 40% or so. How much more is the park-owned home expense ratio?
Todd: The park is not yet stabilized, I would say. We purchased the park in September of last year. We did have a dip in occupancy, a lot of it was just around actually people leaving because we were enforcing rules. We gave people a couple of months when we took over to say, we're not going to accept cash anymore. You got to pay with a check or money order. You can't pay late, if you pay late, we're going to have to charge late fees. That caused some turnover that increased our expense ratio just because our revenue went down. We haven't gotten to that point yet.
Then once we hit COVID, then we had some issues with not being able to evict tenants because the courts in Georgia closed in March, opened back up in July, and there was a big backlog in the court system, so we're still making our way through that. Right now, our expense ratio is higher than I think it's going to be when it's more stable and occupancy back up to where it needs to be.
Andrew: How have your parks performed during COVID? We've had some similar issues, especially in Illinois, where we're still not able to evict some residents that haven't paid. How have yours performed?
Todd: I'd say in terms of the collections, we've had a mix of people that really were affected by COVID. They have lost their jobs and came to us and let us know about it and we have been able to work out the payment plans or try to help them find if there's any way to get some assistance, encourage them to figure out, can they look into what kind of unemployment benefits there might be. I know one of our residents went to their church and their church had been trying to raise money for people in their congregation who were affected and had trouble paying rent.
Then we had another group of people that were just taking advantage of the situation. They may have lost their job, they may not have. They couldn't give us proof or chose not to, so they've just decided to string things out and some of those people. Now, the courts are back open, we've started the eviction process for them.
A couple of those people once that happened, once their case hit the eviction courts and they said, okay, I'm ready to move out now. It's not going to go against a record, but they still stayed at the park for four or five months without paying rent. That's been a challenge for sure. I guess an unexpected part of this recession noise, it's commonly talked about that mobile home parks are recession-resistant and that's true in a typical recession where people might be moving down the scale in terms of homes they're living in. This recession has flipped some of that odds here because a lot of people who lost jobs were in a lot of those lower wage brackets that might have been in service industries, restaurant-type jobs that suffered once the pandemic hit.
Andrew: We were pretty fortunate. I think it's area-specific, too, dependent upon the local employers and things like that because a lot of our parks fared fairly well and still continue to do so. When the federal unemployment ran out, we saw a little bit of a dip there. But I still see collections percentage-wise above 95% across the portfolio. Have you guys seen something similar? Is it still holding up above 90%?
Todd: I would say it's been the last couple of months, probably between 85% and 90%.
Andrew: Alright. Still fairly well, overall. Tell me this, Todd, what is the perfect mobile home park look like to you and where is it located? Is it all park-owned homes? Is it on public utilities or private? What does that perfect park look like?
Todd: For a perfect park from an acquisition standpoint, would be something that is priced well, which would often mean there's some value add to it, someplace that's in a place where there's a strong economy. That's the first thing that I look at when I've looked at any park to acquire is, what the local market looks like. The example in Georgia, the town that these parks are in, is not a huge city. It's about 60,000 people and that falls below the 100,000 population mark that a lot of people in the industry talk about.
But when you dig the next level down, you find out, oh, there are three universities in town. There's a variety of different manufacturers. There is a Lowe’s and a Walmart. That's some other economic activity that made it attractive. That's the first thing that I would look at in terms of trying to find what I think would be an ideal park because I found this out early on in my single-family home investing is, it's one thing if you bought a turnkey property with a tenant in there but you want to make sure that if that tenant ever leaves that there are enough tenants in the pool to backfill that person. That's key, finding something that parks that's at least 50 spaces, preferably larger where you can afford to have those economies and scale to have an on-site manager, maintenance person.
Ideally, it would be great to have somebody that could function and handle both of those roles that is not always the easiest to find. It would be nice to find a place with a combination of park-owned and tenant-owned. There are the benefits to parks with tenant-owned homes in terms of length of stay, pride of ownership—those kinds of things—having that mix in a park would be ideal as well.
Andrew: That's a good point. The market research that you do is very important. You can change a lot about a specific mobile home park, but you're not going to be able to change the market and the jobs available. That's very valuable information.
Todd: When I look at just trying to find markets that there wasn't just a single employer, there's a lot of parks I looked at and it seemed good. But there was one manufacturer or perhaps a military base that made me nervous that if something happened one way or the other to one of those, that would affect the town. To find someplace where there's that diversity of employment is important.
Andrew: I agree entirely. What do you see is your turn over on the park-owned homes? I know it's been fairly new for you. You just owned it for over a year, but what would you say is your re-leasing rate? Were you able to get them to sign on for another year? How is that been for you guys?
Todd: All of the residents are currently in the park are on month-to-month rental agreements. As I mentioned, when we first took over the park, we did have a fair amount of turnover. Again, where people may have been living there for four or five years, used to doing things a certain way and all of a sudden couldn't do it that way. From the tenants that we've placed since—maybe three or four months after taking over—the majority of those people are still around and are good paying tenants. Not sure if that answers your question or not in terms of—
Andrew: Yeah, no, that's great. It's still probably new, with the initial turnover because every park has that when you have new rules. Question about your deals specifically; do you invest your own money in your deals? Do you also personally sign a recourse on the deals that you raise money for?
Todd: Yes. The parks in Georgia, we were able to get seller financing for which made the deal strong. The seller said he did not want to do seller financing. It wasn't part of the deal, just wanted his cash out and wanted it to be done. But because he was only accepting cash, and didn't have the best records, he had five mobile home parks, and he was selling these two. But all five were in one LLC so trying to carve-out tax returns to see that dig into numbers was not easy.
We told him through that process as we were also talking to banks, looking into financing. That might be difficult to finance and overtime convinced him to carry back a note. It was great. We got an initial four-year interest-only term that we can extend to eight years. Pretty competitive interest rate. But that was a loan that's personal recourse. In the syndications I put together if necessary, I'll sign them alone and I do invest side by side with my investors for the deals I put together.
Andrew: That's great.
Todd: The deal in Tennessee was a smaller loan through a hard money lender, but same thing, it was a recourse to me.
Andrew: Did you syndicate both of those deals, the Georgia and the—?
Todd: Yes. I did. Georgia was by more typical where I found the park, got it under contract, went out, raised money, and closed on the park. The one in Tennessee, I had to close quickly on it just in terms of the way I bought it. I had it wholesale from somebody so I bought it myself, got it under control, and then went out after that, and raised money to fund the improvements.
Andrew: It takes some courage to do that. That's impressive.
Todd: In concept again, it seems great. It's going to buy this thing and roll it out and into syndication, and I launched the webinar for that syndication about three or four days before the shutdown happened here in California.
Andrew: Oh, my goodness.
Todd: Not the best time to go out and put a deal out there to raise money for, but I was able to get it done, and brought in a great group of investors. There are a lot of people there. They are interested in investing in the mobile home park space just because, all the things we like about it, a huge need for affordable housing and recession resistance, and the returns.
Andrew: Tell me about that a little bit. How was your general partner, limited partner, split setup? What are the typical expected returns on a deal?
Todd: The returns for the Georgia Park, that was my first indication. I lean that one more heavily towards the investors than to myself. I gave it a 9% preferred return. I remember hearing from Ken McElroy, he’s a big apartment investor, you may know. He said when he was doing a lot of his first couple deals, he knew that he was going to be giving the investors a bigger share of the pie in order to gain credibility and gain experience. That's the way I structured these first couple of deals was to make sure my investors get taken care of first, and most of my compensation is going to be towards the back end when we end up selling the parks.
Andrew: That's great. That's how ours were done as well, and I think that's just how you have to do it.
Todd: Yeah. I think investors like that, they prefer returns, not guaranteed. But just the fact that they know that, if this guy says he's going to give me a 9%, he must think it's going to do better than that and he's going to do everything he can to make sure the returns are higher than that or he's not going to get paid. I think that gives investors comfort.
Andrew: I agree. What's your endgame goal? Where are you going to be at in ten years? And then do you have an exit strategy, even for after that point?
Todd: I want to put together some more syndications. I love looking at deals. I love the business. I love working with investors. I invested in a syndication myself before I put one together with that idea of, hey, I want to invest one myself, learn how it works. I didn't have the best experience through that deal, which would have taught me a lot about how I wanted to put together my syndications myself and also how we want to communicate to investors. I want to continue to do that because I think there's a huge appetite for people who want to invest in real estate but don't know how. They want to diversify outside of the typical Wall Street investments.
Next year, I'll put together at least one deal, and then on the consulting side, that's something I started working on, it's been about four or five months ago now, and that's been great to put my experience as somebody who's purchased and is now running mobile home parks, to help new investors come in and try to match them with parks that make sense for them. I'll continue to do both of those and I like that because then I can offer—if somebody just wants to invest passively and has $50,000 to invest—I can serve somebody from that side. But if they have a lot more money and they just want to buy a park directly, then I can serve them as well on that side.
Andrew: That's fantastic. On the consulting side of things, because I know CCI, don't they do actual third party management of communities?
Todd: They do. They've managed about, I think now it's about 90 parks or so across 15, 16 States. Initially, they just started off as consultants, almost. They're not brokers, but they almost provide that function in terms of, again finding parks and matching buyers and sellers. Through that process, they realized that—especially because a lot of their buyers were remote, many of them live in California—they realized they had to add on that property management as another offering that they could have. Their primary business is consulting. Their property management business is almost break even, but it's just a service that they provide for their clients.
Andrew: In one of your syndication deals, what type of fees are typical? Is there an acquisition fee and what do you charge for property management? Maybe that's similar to what CCI charges. Maybe you could share if you know what they charge on their property management side of things.
Todd: Property management, again, I don't think they're charging enough because again, they were just doing it as a service, but their business is grown now. But in the parks that I have, they're charging, one park is $700 a month, one is $800 a month. From a percentage standpoint, lower than maybe a lot of typical apartment property managers, my charge for property management. But again they look at it, hey, these clients paid us a consulting fee upfront. We're helping them with the turnaround process. We're at least covering our costs from the property management side, which includes managing the on-site manager, paying the bills, doing the monthly reports, doing the year-end financial statements. From my standpoint, when I put my deals together, there'll typically be an acquisition fee and then a quarterly asset management fee.
Andrew: How much are those? Are those a percentage of gross or a percentage of assets under management?
Todd: Yeah. The two deals were a little bit different. Georgia was just a flat fee that I charged, that turned out to be a little bit less than maybe 2.5% is what the percentage turned out to be with Tennessee Park because I bought the park myself and then put it into the syndication. I didn't charge any acquisition fee. I just had a mark up from what I bought it for into the LLC. That was structured a little bit differently. The quarterly asset management fee right now is for the Tennessee park. There's nothing for the first year because the parks are not cash flowing, and then it's 4% of income after that.
Andrew: Those seem very fair. Do you have deals right now that you're working on, that you maybe have under contract, or look into to take down and bring in partners for?
Todd: Right now, I've been looking at quite a few parks. That's the great thing about working with CCI. I see a lot of deal flow coming across my desk. I'm going to wait until next year to get something under contract and go out to raise money. I thought about that recently and then just thought about what's happening now, time-wise, where we are in the year. I just didn't feel it would be the best time to get something under contract, trying to go through due diligence, and then have all that happening as we're leading into the holidays—that just seemed that it might not be the best time to do that, and probably still a little bit bit from launching this last race, just as we went into the pandemic.
I'm seeing quite a few deals out there, but I would imagine it'll probably be the first quarter next year that they'll try to get something under contract and go out and raise money.
Andrew: Very cool. Thank you so much, Todd, for all of this valuable information. I appreciate you coming on the show.
Todd: Thank you, Andrew. I know you have a ton of value to your community out there. And also for just increasing awareness and making the bubble home park business better than it has been.
Andrew: Thank you. I appreciate that, Todd. If our listeners would like to get a-hold of you, what's the best way for them to do so?
Todd: They can do so at my email is email@example.com and my website www.blueelminvestments.com. I would just address a co-author in a recently released book called, the Success Habits of Super Achievers. It was put together by Kyle Wilson. It has some great authors in it like Darren Hardy, Les Brown, Denis Waitley, Brian Tracy, Phil Collen from Def Leppard, Todd Stottlemyre at ex-Major League Baseball player and 80 of us got together and have chapters in this book, just talking about some of the things that we do to make our lives successful. If anybody wants to reach out, I can get somebody a copy of that book.
Andrew: Awesome, that's very cool. That's an awesome offer, Todd.
If you liked the show, please hit the subscribe button to get signed up to receive all of our future interviews with rock stars in the mobile home park space just like Todd. That's it for today. Thank you all so much for tuning in.